{"id":1699,"date":"2017-01-19T09:02:59","date_gmt":"2017-01-19T15:02:59","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/?p=1699"},"modified":"2017-01-19T09:02:59","modified_gmt":"2017-01-19T15:02:59","slug":"forgive-us-our-sins-as-we-forgive-others","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/2017\/01\/19\/forgive-us-our-sins-as-we-forgive-others\/","title":{"rendered":"Forgive Us Our Sins as We Forgive Others"},"content":{"rendered":"

Have you ever stopped and really thought about the Lord’s Prayer? \u00a0Even beyond that, have you ever thought about what you are asking God to do? \u00a0Especially when we are asked to be forgiven of our “Debts”, “Sins”, “Trespasses”, whichever format of the Lord’s Prayer you pray.<\/p>\n

Below are two versions of the Lord’s Prayer, as printed in the Evangelical Lutheran Worship. \u00a0Note on the versions, there are some word changes but they say essentially the same thing. \u00a0The choice of words when translating from Greek into English can make a difference in how we hear and take into ourselves, what we hear, see and feel. \u00a0They are still however essentially the same.<\/p>\n

Lord’s Prayer from the (ELW)<\/p>\n

Our Father in heaven,<\/b><\/p>\n

hallowed be your name, your kingdom come,<\/b><\/p>\n

your will be done, on earth as in heaven.<\/b><\/p>\n

Give us today our daily bread.<\/b><\/p>\n

Forgive us our sins<\/b><\/p>\n

as we forgive those who sin against us.<\/b><\/p>\n

Save us from the time of trial and deliver us from evil.<\/b><\/p>\n

For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours,<\/b><\/p>\n

now and forever. Amen.<\/b><\/p>\n

or<\/i><\/b><\/p>\n

Our Father, who art in heaven,<\/b><\/p>\n

hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come,<\/b><\/p>\n

thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.<\/b><\/p>\n

Give us this day our daily bread;<\/b><\/p>\n

and forgive us our trespasses,<\/b><\/p>\n

as we forgive those who trespass against us;<\/b><\/p>\n

and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.<\/b><\/p>\n

For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory,<\/b><\/p>\n

forever and ever. Amen.<\/b><\/p>\n

Evangelical Lutheran Church, Pastoral Care – ELW<\/i><\/span><\/a> (Fortress Press, 2008).<\/p>\n

<\/a><\/p>\n

There are two\u00a0locations in the Bible, that we can find the prayer. \u00a0We can look at Matthew 6:9-13 and Luke 11:2-4. \u00a0Luke’s version is shorter and it \u00a0does not include something that I find is crucial to an understanding of what we are asking God to do. \u00a0Thus the point of this post. \u00a0So, first let’s look Matthew’s account of the prayer.<\/p>\n

Below, is from Matthew 6:9-13, (NRSV) where Jesus tells us how to pray.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

9\u00a0<\/sup>\u201cPray then in this way:<\/p>\n

Our Father in heaven,<\/p>\n

hallowed be your name.<\/p>\n

10<\/sup>Your kingdom come.<\/p>\n

Your will be done,<\/p>\n

on earth as it is in heaven.<\/p>\n

11<\/sup>Give us this day our daily bread.<\/p>\n

12<\/sup>And forgive us our debts,<\/p>\n

as we also have forgiven our debtors.<\/p>\n

13<\/sup>And do not bring us to the time of trial,<\/p>\n

but rescue us from the evil one.<\/p>\n

The Holy Bible: New Revised Standard Version<\/i><\/span><\/a> (Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1989), Mt 6:9\u201313.<\/p>\n

What I think we often fail to see, because we do not say it in our prayer and maybe often we fail to see because of taking the prayer out of it’s full context, is the verses that follows the prayer.<\/p>\n

Jesus continues to speak, and says;<\/p>\n

14<\/sup>For if you forgive others when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15<\/sup>But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.<\/p>\n

The Holy Bible: Today\u2019s New International Version.<\/i><\/span><\/a> (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2005), Mt 6:14\u201315.<\/p>\n

Now think about the prayer and read it carefully.<\/p>\n

2<\/sup>And forgive us our debts, [sins, trepasses]<\/p>\n

as we also have forgiven our debtors. [those who sin against us, trespasses against us]<\/p>\n

\n

Now go back to verse 14 and 15. \u00a0Are we really prepared to be forgiven by God, how we forgive others? \u00a0Do we need a change of heart before we pray this prayer?<\/p>\n

Just food for thought, when we pray this prayer.<\/p>\n

On a couple of other notes. \u00a0I encourage you to look at both Matthew’s and Luke’s account of the prayer. \u00a0I also highly encourage you to look at different translations of the Bible. I used a couple of here, but there are many other translations. \u00a0There is a difference between translations and paraphrase and interpretations. \u00a0The Message Bible is an example of a paraphrase interpretation. \u00a0The best translations were translated by using the original Greek and Hebrew scriptures. \u00a0When you start looking at the footnotes to the verses, you will also note that some of the original copies of the Greek and Hebrew scriptures, can be slightly different as well. \u00a0They may use different words, add words or not have other words included. \u00a0The word choice when translating, is chosen by the translators. \u00a0Often there is NOT a word for word way to translate from one language into another. \u00a0What also has to be taken into consideration is:<\/p>\n

Translator’s background (Context)
\nThe context of the original text
\nThe year of the translation
\nThe audience of the translation, their context
\nThere are many other factors as well, but all of this makes a difference when looking at other translations.
\nStudying the scriptures can be a lot of fun. \u00a0It can also be confusing and frustrating at times. \u00a0Listening for the the Holy Spirit during those times can make it even more interesting and fun. \u00a0God continues to speak to us today, in words of the Bible, the environment, other humans, other written words, etc. \u00a0God continues to speak.<\/p>\n

In all things:<\/p>\n

Our Father in heaven,<\/p>\n

hallowed be your name.<\/p>\n

10<\/sup>Your kingdom come.<\/p>\n

Your will be done,<\/p>\n

on earth as it is in heaven.<\/p>\n

AMEN<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Have you ever stopped and really thought about the Lord’s Prayer? \u00a0Even beyond that, have you ever thought about what you are asking God to do? \u00a0Especially when we are asked to be forgiven of our “Debts”, “Sins”, “Trespasses”, whichever format of the Lord’s Prayer you pray. Below are two versions of the Lord’s Prayer, … [Read more…]<\/a><\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_crdt_document":"","_exactmetrics_skip_tracking":false,"_exactmetrics_sitenote_active":false,"_exactmetrics_sitenote_note":"","_exactmetrics_sitenote_category":0,"_uf_show_specific_survey":0,"_uf_disable_surveys":false,"advanced_seo_description":"","jetpack_seo_html_title":"","jetpack_seo_noindex":false,"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[57,87,10,111],"tags":[],"class_list":{"0":"entry","1":"post","2":"publish","3":"author-admin","4":"post-1699","6":"format-standard","7":"category-bible","8":"category-christ","9":"category-jesus","10":"category-prayer"},"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p2m6h5-rp","jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":1522,"url":"https:\/\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/2016\/05\/02\/fishing-blessing-fishing-prayer\/","url_meta":{"origin":1699,"position":0},"title":"Fishing Blessing & Fishing Prayer","author":"Douglas Dill","date":"May 2, 2016","format":false,"excerpt":"Below is the blessing that I used for equipment and persons for this fishing season of 2016. 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