{"id":307,"date":"2012-12-08T11:29:05","date_gmt":"2012-12-08T17:29:05","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/?p=307"},"modified":"2012-12-08T11:30:52","modified_gmt":"2012-12-08T17:30:52","slug":"where-is-god","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/2012\/12\/08\/where-is-god\/","title":{"rendered":"Where is God?"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>This post is a response to a Facebook post I received.\u00a0 I find the issue so compelling that I believe it is best answered here on my blog. \u00a0This is an age old question.\u00a0 If there is a God, why do bad things happen?\u00a0 Where is God and why do I not see God in times of trouble.<\/p>\n<p>&#8220;Why does God show up in the Bible when people cry out to Him and in movies\u0085\u201d<img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright\" title=\"Where is God?\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/monk2be.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2012\/11\/finding-God.jpg?resize=328%2C366\" alt=\"\" width=\"328\" height=\"366\" \/><\/p>\n<p>This assumes that God does not show up at other times.\u00a0 However, since God is always active in the Spirit, God is always present.\u00a0 So often we look for God, mostly when things seem at their worst.\u00a0 This can be when our sight is the worst of all and when faith is needed most.<\/p>\n<p>When Jesus was taken before Pilate, things were at their worst for the Apostles.\u00a0 Things were so bad they went into hiding.\u00a0 They were not only fearful of what was going to happen to Jesus but also to themselves. \u00a0This unwarranted fear was\u00a0despite\u00a0being told by Jesus of what would\u00a0happen\u00a0to Himself and how he would defeat death.\u00a0 Peter even when confronted directly, denied Jesus three times. \u00a0He\u00a0denied\u00a0the person he said was Lord, Son of God.\u00a0 Peter believed Jesus was the Son yet he was in despair and denied Jesus.\u00a0 So, is it that God is not present?\u00a0 No, God is always present yet we do not see.\u00a0 Those things recorded in the Bible, do not mean that people necessarily recognized the hand of God at work, until after the fact.\u00a0 Also with regards to the Bible, the Psalms are full of pleas to God for help yet some hear no answer.\u00a0 We choose to see the \u201cmiracles\u201d in the time of need and fail to see that what God does. \u00a0What God choose to do or not, is a mystery\u0085. \u00a0That is part of the mystery of faith.\u00a0 Trust (which is faith) that God is who God is and will continue to be God in all things.\u00a0 In this we look at the <a href=\"http:\/\/www.merriam-webster.com\/dictionary\/eschatology\">eschatological<\/a> God and wait for the end, which is the beginning of eternity.\u00a0 With regards to movies\u0085..it is after all, a movie. \u00a0It is about making money. \u00a0Movies are bad for theology and religion as a whole!<\/p>\n<p>Here is a troubling statement:\u00a0 \u201c\u0085if one can experience God&#8217;s presence in the worst of circumstances, then that person is truly saved.\u201d\u00a0 This can be seen as a theology of glory.\u00a0 \u201cThe theology of glory knows God from his works\u0085\u201d.<a title=\"\" href=\"file:\/\/\/C:\/Users\/Dougd\/Dropbox\/This%20is%20an%20age%20old%20question-Copy1.doc#_edn1\">[i]<\/a> What I hear is, that by seeing God in action, then someone knows God and therefore will be saved.\u00a0 In contrast I subscribe to the theology of the cross.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cThat person does not deserve to be called a theologian who looks upon the invisible things of God as if it were clearly perceptible in those things which have actually happened. He deserves to be called a theologian, however, who comprehends the visible and manifest things of God seen through suffering and the cross.\u201d<a title=\"\" href=\"file:\/\/\/C:\/Users\/Dougd\/Dropbox\/This%20is%20an%20age%20old%20question-Copy1.doc#_edn2\">[ii]<\/a><\/p>\n<p>Another issue with the statement also is the idea of \u201ctruly saved\u201d in this context.\u00a0 I am taking the context to be saved from damnation, since it does not seem appropriate that there is an illness this is referenced to.\u00a0 If I have\u00a0misinterpreted, then I apologize for my misinterpretation.\u00a0 I would not expect the word \u201csaved\u201d to be used in the context of being sick.\u00a0 Our salvation is not dependent upon us at all and especially not upon us to \u201c\u0085experience God\u2019s presence\u0085\u201d in good or worst circumstances.\u00a0 Many of us are familiar with John 3:16-17, where it says; \u201c16\u00a0For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life. 17\u00a0Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.\u201d<a title=\"\" href=\"file:\/\/\/C:\/Users\/Dougd\/Dropbox\/This%20is%20an%20age%20old%20question-Copy1.doc#_edn3\">[iii]<\/a>\u00a0 Some believe that works of some sort are required in order to be saved. \u00a0In the case of the quote from the post it could be &#8220;&#8230;experiencing God\u2019s presence&#8221;. \u00a0However that\u00a0experience\u00a0might play out. However, we as humans deserve nothing from God and do nothing to merit God\u2019s life giving salvation in Christ.\u00a0 The confessions of the Lutheran Church say;<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">Regarding the righteousness of faith before God, we unanimously believe, teach, and confess on the basis of the general summary of our Christian faith and confession expressed above that poor sinful people are justified before God, that is, absolved [5 highlights]\u0097pronounced free of all sins and of the judgment of the damnation that they deserved and accepted as children and heirs of eternal life [5 highlights]\u0097without the least bit of our own \u201cmerit or worthiness\u201d [SC, \u201cCreed,\u201d 4], apart from all preceding, present, or subsequent works. We are justified on the basis of sheer grace, because of the sole merit, the entire obedience, and the bitter suffering, death, and the resurrection of our Lord Christ alone, whose obedience is reckoned to us as righteousness. <a title=\"\" href=\"file:\/\/\/C:\/Users\/Dougd\/Dropbox\/This%20is%20an%20age%20old%20question-Copy1.doc#_edn4\">[iv]<\/a><\/p>\n<p>I see the statement, &#8220;&#8230;But I can&#8217;t help but think that the language of pain is normally what God uses to refine us.&#8221; Theology of the cross is about the pain and suffering that Christ takes upon Christ&#8217;s self in full obedience to God for humanities sake.\u00a0 This is where we see God.\u00a0 God does not cause suffering nor does The Lord want us to suffering. God uses all that happens, good and bad, for God&#8217;s purpose in the world.\u00a0 By having a God, who became human, 100% human, 100% deity, we have a God that understands, has experienced, one we can relate to and feels our suffering.\u00a0 There is no other god than our God that has died for humanity of past, present and future.<\/p>\n<p>When we are in the midst of suffering, it is okay to be angry with God, it is okay to yell up to God and ask&#8230;..Why God&#8230;.why me, them, now, why this or that&#8230;.why why why?\u00a0 God wants us to lift both joy and sorrow up to God.\u00a0 This is all apart of relationship that God seeks through Jesus Christ and the Holy Sprit with us.\u00a0 We are broken, and sinful.\u00a0 We have pain and suffering in this world.\u00a0 We call out to The Lord, come Lord Jesus come.\u00a0 We await the birth of our savior in this Advent season.\u00a0 We look for Emanuel.<\/p>\n<p>Come Lord Jesus come&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.<\/p>\n<p><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignleft\" title=\"Come Lord Jesus\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/1.bp.blogspot.com\/-8dU_UtNmotw\/T-34eMc4GuI\/AAAAAAAABQE\/6Sy0NmZIoaM\/s400\/come%2Blord%2Bjesus%2BP001L.jpeg?resize=397%2C212\" alt=\"\" width=\"397\" height=\"212\" \/><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<div><br clear=\"all\" \/><\/p>\n<hr align=\"left\" size=\"1\" width=\"33%\" \/>\n<div>\n<p><a title=\"\" href=\"file:\/\/\/C:\/Users\/Dougd\/Dropbox\/This%20is%20an%20age%20old%20question-Copy1.doc#_ednref1\">[i]<\/a> Paul Althaus, The Theology of Martin Luther, trans. Robert C. Schultz (Philadelphia: Fortress Press, 1966), 26.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div>\n<p><a title=\"\" href=\"file:\/\/\/C:\/Users\/Dougd\/Dropbox\/This%20is%20an%20age%20old%20question-Copy1.doc#_ednref2\">[ii]<\/a> Paul Althaus, The Theology of Martin Luther, trans. Robert C. Schultz (Philadelphia: Fortress Press, 1966), 25.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div>\n<p><a title=\"\" href=\"file:\/\/\/C:\/Users\/Dougd\/Dropbox\/This%20is%20an%20age%20old%20question-Copy1.doc#_ednref3\">[iii]<\/a> The Holy Bible: New Revised Standard Version (Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1989), Jn 3:16-17.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div>\n<p><a title=\"\" href=\"file:\/\/\/C:\/Users\/Dougd\/Dropbox\/This%20is%20an%20age%20old%20question-Copy1.doc#_ednref4\">[iv]<\/a> Robert Kolb, Timothy J. Wengert and Charles P. Arand, The Book of Concord: The Confessions of the Evangelical Lutheran Church (Minneapolis, MN: Fortress Press, 2000), 563.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>This post is a response to a Facebook post I received.\u00a0 I find the issue so compelling that I believe it is best answered here on my blog. \u00a0This is an age old question.\u00a0 If there is a God, why do bad things happen?\u00a0 Where is God and why do I not see God in &#8230; <span class=\"more\"><a class=\"more-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/2012\/12\/08\/where-is-god\/\">[Read more&#8230;]<\/a><\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_crdt_document":"","_exactmetrics_skip_tracking":false,"_exactmetrics_sitenote_active":false,"_exactmetrics_sitenote_note":"","_exactmetrics_sitenote_category":0,"_uf_show_specific_survey":0,"_uf_disable_surveys":false,"advanced_seo_description":"","jetpack_seo_html_title":"","jetpack_seo_noindex":false,"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[21,10,32,31,6],"tags":[],"class_list":{"0":"entry","1":"post","2":"publish","3":"author-admin","4":"post-307","6":"format-standard","7":"category-faith","8":"category-jesus","9":"category-theology-of-glory","10":"category-theology-of-the-cross","11":"category-works"},"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p2m6h5-4X","jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":906,"url":"https:\/\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/2014\/04\/18\/gone\/","url_meta":{"origin":307,"position":0},"title":"Gone!","author":"Douglas Dill","date":"April 18, 2014","format":false,"excerpt":"He was taken from us, why did this happen!? God, Jesus said He was Your Son. \u00a0If that were so, then why did You let Him die? \u00a0Why God, why have you forsaken Your Son? \u00a0If Him, then what about us? Jesus, King of the Jews, Son of man, Son\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Death&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Death","link":"https:\/\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/category\/death\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/acelebrationofwomen.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/03\/good_friday_wallpaper1.jpg?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/acelebrationofwomen.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/03\/good_friday_wallpaper1.jpg?resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/acelebrationofwomen.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/03\/good_friday_wallpaper1.jpg?resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/acelebrationofwomen.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/03\/good_friday_wallpaper1.jpg?resize=700%2C400 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/acelebrationofwomen.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/03\/good_friday_wallpaper1.jpg?resize=1050%2C600 3x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/acelebrationofwomen.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/03\/good_friday_wallpaper1.jpg?resize=1400%2C800 4x"},"classes":[]},{"id":3508,"url":"https:\/\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/2025\/08\/11\/faith-trusting-in-the-promises-of-god\/","url_meta":{"origin":307,"position":1},"title":"Faith: Trusting in the promises of God","author":"Douglas Dill","date":"August 11, 2025","format":false,"excerpt":"9th Sunday after Pentecost8\/10\/2025 Hebrews 11:1-3 (NIV) Hebrews 11:8-16 (NIV)Luke 12:32-40 (NIV) https:\/\/vimeo.com\/1109105314","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Change&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Change","link":"https:\/\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/category\/change\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/08\/Faith-Belief-In-Gods-Promise-e1754933920736.jpg?fit=767%2C340&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/08\/Faith-Belief-In-Gods-Promise-e1754933920736.jpg?fit=767%2C340&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/08\/Faith-Belief-In-Gods-Promise-e1754933920736.jpg?fit=767%2C340&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/08\/Faith-Belief-In-Gods-Promise-e1754933920736.jpg?fit=767%2C340&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x"},"classes":[]},{"id":1424,"url":"https:\/\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/2015\/11\/03\/the-saints-are-in-heaven\/","url_meta":{"origin":307,"position":2},"title":"The Saints are in Heaven","author":"Douglas Dill","date":"November 3, 2015","format":false,"excerpt":"https:\/\/youtu.be\/9HMyIZwQNhc Audio Version All Saints Year B Isaiah 25:6-9 Revelation 21:1-6a John 11:32-44 Today we remember former saints and sinners, known only now as saints, who from this congregation, have died and have been lifted to heaven.\u00a0 We also lift up today, all the loved saints that have passed in\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Christ&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Christ","link":"https:\/\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/category\/christ\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/img.youtube.com\/vi\/9HMyIZwQNhc\/0.jpg?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":1256,"url":"https:\/\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/2015\/03\/09\/rejoice-in-gods-foolishness\/","url_meta":{"origin":307,"position":3},"title":"Rejoice in God&#8217;s Foolishness","author":"Douglas Dill","date":"March 9, 2015","format":false,"excerpt":"http:\/\/youtu.be\/22SQdRDBpPY Audio Version 1 Corinthians 1:18\u201325 John 2:13\u201322 At the beginning of Lent, we were reminded of our mortality, with the application of the ashes, while hearing the words, from dust you came and to dust you shall return. Got to love our Christian religion, one that reminds us that\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Christ&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Christ","link":"https:\/\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/category\/christ\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/03\/Wall-Cross-Transparent-2-191x300.png?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":1329,"url":"https:\/\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/2015\/05\/12\/love-is-experienced-in-faith-in-god-in-gods-love\/","url_meta":{"origin":307,"position":4},"title":"Love is Experienced in Faith in God, in God&#8217;s Love","author":"Douglas Dill","date":"May 12, 2015","format":false,"excerpt":"This sermon was delivered at Wartburg Theological Seminary, on Monday May 10th, 2015. \u00a0The final year students have been preaching this semester from the previous Sunday New Testament text, for their Monday Chapel preaching. \u00a0As part of the sermon, just prior to giving the sermon, the song, They'll Know We\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Christ&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Christ","link":"https:\/\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/category\/christ\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":470,"url":"https:\/\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/2013\/04\/02\/faith-trusting-in-the-promise\/","url_meta":{"origin":307,"position":5},"title":"Faith: Trusting in the Promise","author":"Douglas Dill","date":"April 2, 2013","format":false,"excerpt":"Romans 4:1-5, 13-16 1 What then are we to say was gained by Abraham, our ancestor according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the scripture say? \u201cAbraham believed\u00a0God, and it was\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Eternal Life&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Eternal Life","link":"https:\/\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/category\/eternal-life\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/he-is-listening.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/abraham3.jpg?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/307","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=307"}],"version-history":[{"count":4,"href":"https:\/\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/307\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":312,"href":"https:\/\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/307\/revisions\/312"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=307"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=307"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=307"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}