{"id":894,"date":"2014-04-16T16:14:04","date_gmt":"2014-04-16T21:14:04","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/?p=894"},"modified":"2014-04-16T16:36:08","modified_gmt":"2014-04-16T21:36:08","slug":"marriage-and-homosexuality","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/2014\/04\/16\/marriage-and-homosexuality\/","title":{"rendered":"Marriage and Homosexuality"},"content":{"rendered":"

I know this post may cause a stir and that is not why I am posting. I respect others beliefs and would always like to be in conversation about our differences but would not try to force a change in ones beliefs. one must be true to their own beliefs, no matter how different from my own. Please respect the conversation I am about to post. This comes from a question posted by someone I know on facebook, and my subsequent response to them.<\/p>\n

Facebook Post:
\nI have two questions for those more devout than I, and don’t take this as an attack on your beliefs or that I am questioning anyone’s intelligence as I am only seeking to gain some insight in regards to gay marriage.<\/p>\n

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  1. In the bible, unless I am mistaken, it says something along the lines of being bad if man should lie with man. Now is that only pertaining to two men, or does it pertain to two women as well? If it pertains to just two men, where in the bible is it against lesbianism? If it does pertain to women though, then man can be defined as both men and women and that if a man and woman should lie together, it would be bad wouldn’t it?<\/li>\n
  2. If marriage has to be recognized by both state and God, why would the state recognizing it be a bad thing seeing as God would not condone it anyway? While they may be legally married under the state and enjoy all the benefits of married life and the recognition from their peers, it just wouldn’t be under God as is a man and woman married are, and therefore has no effect on the religions beliefs. The word marriage would just have two definitions, one for non religious peoples and another for those that follow the Bible.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n

    Second Facebook post from same person:
    \nOkay so I found leviticus’ thing about if man should lie with mankind as he does a woman. But would the term mankind from then on only be talking about men as it does here? Are women not considered a part of mankind?<\/p>\n

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    Here is my response. Again, you may not agree with what I believe and that is okay, but please respect that. Anyone who gets ugly in their response comments, will have the comments deleted. I do not want to use this blog to spew hate by myself or anyone else.<\/p>\n

    There is much to be interpreted into the Bible. A verse or two is never good to look at. This is why Luther said that scripture must be interpreted through other scripture. The Roman Catholic Church would agree on this too but would add tradition. We would differ on the importance of tradition.<\/p>\n

    I am not sure what version you looked at for Leviticus but English translations are problematic because the English language does not fully lend itself to proper translation based upon the nuances of the Greek and Hebrew that the scriptures were written in. Even with that said, both languages are versions that are considered dead and have not been written or spoken in hundreds of years and thus even the true nuances\/meaning can be lost in any translation. Translation is nothing that can be done word for word and when a translation is done it really amounts to an interpretation and that interpretation is based upon many things, such as;
    \nContext of the interpreter, context of who the translation\/interpretation audience is to be, historical knowledge, historical context, possible bias to lead a reader in a particular direction, and on and on.<\/p>\n

    Now, with all that being said:
    \nMan to lay with a Man because the Bible was put together with a bias towards the male gender by the mostly male translators\/interpreters would account for the interpretation. It is also important to know that in Biblical times, there was not the same understanding of how babies were conceived. Yes, the basics were known, but not the same scientific knowledge of today. Often it was thought that women were the sole reason for not conceiving, they were the the determination of the sex of the baby. As we know now, neither are true. The man was the carrier of the “seed” and for a man to lay with a man or even to “spill” the seed upon the ground did not help reproduction. One of the main concerns in biblical times was reproduction and making more humans. The mortality rate was significantly high. This mortality rate continued for America into the late 1800 to early 1900’s. Often parents did not name their child until after a time to be considered to be safe that the lived. The mortality rate is very high in some countries even today.<\/p>\n

    The definition of marriage is at the core of many fights. Because people will argue that a marriage is between and man and woman only and use the Bible, a non secular book, to back them up. The question really comes down to why are those who believe that a marriage, based upon religious beliefs, trying to force their beliefs upon the secular world? It is also about bias in translations too.<\/p>\n

    The history of religion, is that one group has more often than not forced particular religious beliefs upon others. Now through the separation of church and state in the U.S., which most people misinterpret, the state is not to mandate a particular religion upon the people and the people are to exercise their freedom to choose or not.<\/p>\n

    So, through misinterpretation, misuse and force, the state instead attempts to force those who have religious beliefs to give them up instead for secular beliefs. I was speaking with someone that was to do community service for the courts. They were advised they could do this for many institutions, as long as they did not have any religious affiliation. When questioned about the caveat, the response was “because of the separation between church and state.” Again, a misuse of the separation, when doing the community service why not be able to work in a place that supports your beliefs and why should you be forced to work in a place that has no religious beliefs, may be against your religious beliefs, why should they benefit from the service and not a religious organization of your choice.<\/p>\n

    With regards to homosexuality, because that is the main crux of the issue with same sex marriage, the Bible is often misused to justify what someone feels comfortable with vs, what it might actually say. As a Christian, I am not bound by the Old Testament, therefore anything that is pointed out there I am freed from through Jesus Christ because although He did not abolish the law, he fulfilled the law and freed me from the death of the law in His death and resurrection.<\/p>\n

    Many like to site 1 Corinthians 6:9 as justification against homosexuality. However, I Corinthian 6:9— malakov” (Malakois) means– of a boy kept for homosexual relations with a man or of a male prostitute. Not homosexuality!!!!! This is a purity issue of either prostitution or pedophilia not homosexuality! Would it not be wrong if it were a female child or a woman prostitute?<\/p>\n

    Back to interpretation:
    \nThe word Homosexual or homosexuality is a 19th century created word and so to use that as a word in a translation is faulty because it does not have a 1st century equivalent.<\/p>\n

    But lets look at Genesis 19 about the town of Sodom:
    \nRemember the story in Genesis 19 about the town of Sodom and of being a \u201csodomite\u201d? The men of the town wanted to gang rape the angels that came to visit Lot and his family. Gang rape and lust are the issues here\u2014gang rape and lust is wrong, heterosexually and homosexually. They truly lacked hospitality and were brutal. Besides, angels are not sexual beings, they are not male or female, they are angels. And so to equate angels and homosexual behavior is ludicrous and bad exegesis.<\/p>\n

    I don’t know how many made it this far, but there is lots and lots to be said on both sides of the issue. I respect those that believe differently than I do. We can agree on many issues and some we have to agree to be civil about and agree to disagree but still be in conversation. Society today seems to have gone to the way of “only my way or the highway” and has become very brutal about the tactics of “persuasion”.<\/p>\n

    In Christ we are saved. Christ did not abolish the law but fulfilled the law and through the Grace of God in the faith of Christ we, human beings are both sinner and saint and can partake of the kingdom of heaven today.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

    I know this post may cause a stir and that is not why I am posting. I respect others beliefs and would always like to be in conversation about our differences but would not try to force a change in ones beliefs. one must be true to their own beliefs, no matter how different from … [Read more…]<\/a><\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_crdt_document":"","_exactmetrics_skip_tracking":false,"_exactmetrics_sitenote_active":false,"_exactmetrics_sitenote_note":"","_exactmetrics_sitenote_category":0,"_uf_show_specific_survey":0,"_uf_disable_surveys":false,"advanced_seo_description":"","jetpack_seo_html_title":"","jetpack_seo_noindex":false,"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[57,3,65,10,5,66],"tags":[],"class_list":{"0":"entry","1":"post","2":"publish","3":"author-admin","4":"post-894","6":"format-standard","7":"category-bible","8":"category-grace","9":"category-homosexuality","10":"category-jesus","11":"category-law","12":"category-marriage"},"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p2m6h5-eq","jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":424,"url":"https:\/\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/2013\/01\/15\/reflections-off-the-rez\/","url_meta":{"origin":894,"position":0},"title":"Reflections off the Rez","author":"Douglas Dill","date":"January 15, 2013","format":false,"excerpt":"It has now been three days since leaving the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation of the Lakota Indians. \u00a0The last evening I would have to say held the most meaning to me. \u00a0We were given the opportunity for reflection by Howard. \u00a0I really enjoyed listening to him speak about his experiences\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Spirit"","block_context":{"text":"Spirit","link":"https:\/\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/category\/spirit\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"Howard Blue Bird0001","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/01\/Howard-Blue-Bird0001-213x300.jpg?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":68,"url":"https:\/\/www.messy-spirituality.com\/wordpress\/2012\/02\/24\/to-fear-death-vs-to-fear-dying\/","url_meta":{"origin":894,"position":1},"title":"To Fear Death vs To Fear Dying","author":"Douglas Dill","date":"February 24, 2012","format":false,"excerpt":"I have posted this to both of my blogs this time. 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